Tag: syncope

Syncope Vs Seizure: the quest for an answer

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One of the readers of my blog sent me an interesting query. Here is her history. My response to it follows. I have deleted her name and hidden her email address to maintain her confidentiality.
HISTORY

Hi! I was grocery shopping in Wal-mart when I had my episode. I was walking to the front of the store after shopping for about an hour. My vision kept blacking out. It was like someone just turned out the lights. I would be able to see again and I would be standing there staring at something. This happened about 4 or 5 times over a ten minute span. The next thing I knew I was waking up in the hospital. Apparently I hit the ground started convulsing, my eyes rolled back and I was foaming at the mouth. I bit the side of my tongue, my body was horribly sore the next couple of days, but I didn’t have any bladder issues. I had no memory of the seizure or what had happened. I kept going in and hour for the next couple of hours. I busted my head on the floor which required staples. I had memory problems and balance issues for the next week. I then made an appointment with a neurologist. He thinks I have syncope. He sent me for my EEG to rule out epilepsy, but we haven’t got the results back yet. While I was having my EEG I started having facial spasms during the flashing light portion of the test. I’m reading about syncope and some of it just doesn’t fit. I am a HUGE salt eater. I crave salty foods all day! So if that was it, wouldn’t my diet be treating the syncope? Also, my sister has epilepsy. Her seizures are triggered by flashing lights. I have never had a seizure before. I have passed out in the past, but it was because of hypoglycemia. I don’t have any issues with heat or pain or seeing blood. It just doesn’t affect me. I just don’t know if he’s got the correct diagnosis and would like someone else’s opinion. Thanks!

Dear A,
                 thank you for writing in to me.  Your history has intrigued me and hence I shall dwell over it a little before offering my humble opinion.  It goes without saying, this opinion is offered without taking your history in person and examining you.  You should follow what your doctor tells you.  He/ she shall be the best person to guide further diagnostic and management issues.  Your recent event had features of both syncope as well as a seizure/ convulsion. So what in your history points towards syncope?
PRODROMAL FEATURES: meaning things which you felt prior to passing out. You felt light headed, your vision was blurred/ tunneled/ kept going in and out (it always fascinates me how patients use different words to describe the same symptom). Prior to a syncopal event patients may feel as if they are about to pass out/ faint. They may look pale (all the blood was drained out from the face), they may feel/ complain that their legs feel weak/ woobly.
I am uncertain what to make of the staring episodes which followed soon after. By staring do you mean you were unable to concentrate (may occur with syncope) or do you mean you had impairment in your level of consciousness and awareness ( goes more towards a seizure).
Anyways let us move forward. The next thing you remember is waking up in the hospital. From the bystander history, you were noticed to have convulsive movements. During the seizure, you lost body tone leading to a hard fall which cracked open your skull.  During the convulsion itself your eyes rolled back into your head, you foamed from the side of the mouth and bit the side of your tongue. Yes biting the side of the tongue goes more towards a seizure than biting the tip of your tongue. I am not sure who figured that one out though. You did not have loss of bladder control. Post the seizure, you were not yourself  for the next few days with a slow return to the baseline.
There I think I have summarized your history well. Well what happens next? Your history has features of both syncope as well a seizure.  I would have asked a few more questions:
1) did you feel anything prior to the event. We call these auras. Any strange smell, any strange taste and so forth.
2) have you ever had a seizure before.
3) any history of febrile convulsions?
4) are you prone to syncope: were you dehydrated, sick with the flu and so forth.
Well let us move forward. I am taking you step by step as I work through this history. So the doctor ordered an EEG (test to look at the brain waves). Why the EEG? Well simple if the EEG shows abnormal brain waves (I use the word misfiring of the brain), it points towards a seizure. If the EEG is normal, it may point towards syncope. That said and done, patients with seizures may have a normal EEG.
We do not have the EEG results. But during the test you mention something happened to you. Your face started twitching while photic stimulation was been carried out (flashing lights). Your sister has epilepsy and you say her seizures are triggered by flashing lights (usually patients who have primary generalized epilepsy have these kind of seizures).
So where does all this lead to?  My opinion: it is possible you have an underlying seizure disorder.
My recommendations: I would try my level best to rule out or rule in seizures. This may need a longer duration EEG study, if the first one is unrevealing. The decision to start anti-convulsant therapy shall be guided by all the above : history, examination findings, EEG findings and neuroimaging findings (CT scan or MRI brain).
THE BEST PERSON TO MAKE THAT DECISION–YOUR CURRENT DOCTOR AND NOT ME OVER THE INTERNET.  

Is it a seizure or is it syncope? the story continues….

braindiseases179 Comments

                      Is it a seizure or is it syncope? the story continues….

So our story ended with John in the ER. As many of you rightly guessed the first case scenario represents a typical syncopal episode while in the second case John had a generalized convulsion (seizure).

So what are the points in the history which favor syncope and which favor a seizure?

When a patient presents to a neurologist with an episode of loss of consciousness, it is imperative that we try to elucidate the underlying cause. As you can imagine the treatment of both these conditions is very different.

Syncope (fainting) can come either from the heart (we call this cardiogenic syncope) or from the brain (we call this neurogenic syncope or vasodepressor syncope or more commonly as vasovagal syncope). So for example you can faint (have a syncopal episode) if you have a sudden massive heart attack, or a transient arrhythmia of the heart (the heart beat fluctuates). As you can imagine these are potential lethal causes and hence patient’s who present with syncope are frequently evaluated for these cardiac conditions. Tests like ECG, prolonged 24 ECG (electrocardiogram) and sometimes an echocardiogram are ordered. Vasovagal syncope on the other hand is more benign and our patient John likely had a vasovagal syncopal episode in case scenario No 1. Another classical example of vasovagal syncope is when someone faints when he or she sees blood for the first time (frequently reported in medical students when they go into the OR for the first time).

 So what are the points which favor syncope?

1. Feeling light-headed prior to the episode

2. Feeling dizzy as if you are about to faint.

3. Blurring of vision at the onset of the episode ( Doctor I felt light headed, a little woosy, my vision started to go black and then I passed out)

4. Syncope usually occurs in an upright position (patient is usually standing when it occurs). Syncopal patients usually do not shake (that is they do not have convulsive movements. There is an entity called syncopal convulsion where in the episode starts with a syncope but then goes on to become a seizure. I shall not go into the details here as then it shall become confusing).

5. Usually the loss of consciousness is of very short duration. Once they fall to the ground and the blood rushes to their brain (as gravity has been eliminated), they rapidly regain consciousness.

6. They are not confused after the episode. They come around rapidly and know where they are (they are not confused and disoriented after the episode).

7. Syncopal patients usually do not bite their tongue or have loss of bladder control (wet their patients) during an episode.

What are the points which favor a seizure?

1. Patients who have a seizure do not get the type of prodomal symptoms which patients with syncope do. Meaning they do not feel light-headed, dizzy as if they are about to pass out. Seizures frequently occur out of the blue with no warning whatsoever. That said and done, some patients with seizures which come from the temporal lobe may get an aura. Multiple different types of auras have been reported in temporal lobe epilepsy (smell of burning rubber, metallic taste in the mouth, a rising sensation in the tummy among many others).

2. Seizures can occur in any position-standing, sitting, lying in bed and frequently in sleep too.

3. Patients who have a convulsion shake. We call this tonic clonic movements of the arms and legs (first they are noticed to stiffen up, the eyes may roll up or get deviated to one side and later jerking of the arms and legs occur).

4. The tongue may get caught inbetween the teeth as the patient is stiffening up or when they are having a convulsion (shaking). This frequently leads to a tongue bite (usually on the lateral border of the tongue).

5. When the patient stiffens up, the muscles of the urinary bladder go into a spasm and the patient may end having loss of bladder control (wet their pants). This may also occur when the seizure finally ends and the muscles relax.

6. Frequently patients after a seizure are confused and disoriented for a while. We call this the post ictal state.

7. Seizures frequently lead to loss of muscle tone. The patient falls and hits the ground hard. This may lead to cranio-facial injuries and even fractures. Patients with syncope on the other hand do not fall hard, rather thay seem to ease themselves to the ground.

As you can see now syncope and seizures may resemble each other superficially but a good history is usually able to clarify the diagnosis.

Is it a seizure or is it syncope: going over the basics again

braindiseases6 Comments

Is it a seizure or is it syncope: going over the basics again

Nitin K. Sethi, MD

Assistant Professor of Neurology

New York-Presbyterian Hospital

Weill Cornell Medical Center

New York, NY 10065

 

I have written about this before but thought this would be a good time to go over the basics again. So let us begin with an example. Our main actor (lets call him John) is working in his office. The clock strikes 12 and he decides to step outside to smoke.  It has been a tough day at work for John.  Went out with a couple of friends last night and had one too many Jack Daniels on the rocks (with a slice of lime!!!).  This liberal indulgence in the bubby resulted in John waking up dehydrated and with the worst hangover of his life. That combined with a cold he is still nursing and you can imagine John is a very unhappy camper.

So John  steps out to smoke. Lights up and takes a deep puff. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh. And then it happens. He feels light headed, dizzy, his vision starts to grey and before he knows it he is on the floor.  His friend who sees him fall, rushes to help him. By the time he reaches John, John is already coming around. He attempts to get up on his feet and asks his friend what happened. He is alert and oriented and apart from a bruised ego, he feels well.

 

Now lets go to case scenario number 2. John is again our main actor. In this case though John is having a good day. He slept well the night before and steps out to have a smoke. He lights up. Ahhhhhhhhhhh. Life sure feels good. And then it happens. He stiffens up. A cry is heard (we call this the epileptic cry) and then he takes a hard fall to the ground.  After falling to the ground, he is noted to “shake” by his friend who has since rushed to his side ( I saw him shaking–both arms and legs, it was horrible. He was foaming at the mouth and I thought he was going to die is how his friend describes the event to the EMS later on!!!). After a minute, John stops shaking but he does not come around immediately. He remains confused and disoriented till the arrival of the EMS 15 minutes later. John later tells the doctor in the ER that he has bitten his tongue and lost control of his bladder (wet his pants) during the episode.

So after presenting these two case scenarios, my question to you is in which scenario did John have a syncope (fainting episode) and which was a seizure?

In the next post we shall pick up John’s story from the ER. Hopefully we can make him feel better.

 

Syncope-a question and an answer

braindiseases1 Comment

Laura one of my readers had an interesting query. I am publishing her question here as I feel, it may help others who are experiencing the same problem. My answer to her query follows.

Laura Frankiewicz on October 6, 2008 said: Edit Link

Dear Dr. Sethi,
I seem to have been having vasovagul syncope for at least 6 years or so. I feel that they started when I began menopause (I am now 56 and haven’t had a period for over a year. I almost always have a prodomal senation and have never actually passed out. My last episode happened yesterday at the theatre. Let me begin by saying that I take altace for high blood pressure and hychlorathyizide as a diuretic so I may have been dehydrated but I had just drunk quite a bit of water. What I am wondering instead if the lightling could have affected me. The lobby of the theatre has very dim and strange lighting that I find very disturbing. We got there early so I sat under the lighting for almost an hour. Then when we were seated, the area was fairly small and cramped. I had my legs crossed but fairly soon broke out into a sweat and began getting intestinal cramps. The feeling that I had to move my bowels became extreme and I got up to go to the bathroom but by then I was pretty woozy and weak. I managed to get to the usher but had to lie down. After a few minutes they helped me up and I laid down with my Legs elevated. I stayed in this position for only a few minutes while they got my information and I convinced the theatre staff not to call the paramedics. They helped me to the bathroom where upon I was able to evacuate and felt much better. I also drank some more water. I was ultimately re-seated on the ground floor and was able to finish watching the performance. But I have had close calls in this same theatre. It is close and crowded but I always wear sleeveless clothes so as not to overheat. I am not a nervois or panicky person. Most of my syncope episodes have been in warm places; after eating soup, having a pedicure with my feet in warm water. I can always avert the actual fainting. I have never lost consciousness. I guess what I am wondering is if lighting can have a neurological impact that would cause vasovagul syncope. I have had a number of stress tests, the last being last year, a nuclear echocardiagram; all clear. I do not think this is related to my heart but now I am wondering if I should consult with a neurologist. I would appreciate your advice. Also, very often the prodomal sensation includes a strong urge to move my bowels. Has this sensation been reported by others with syncope?
Thank you,
Laura Frankiewicz

  • 4 braindiseases on October 7, 2008 said: Edit Link

    Dear Laura,
    thank you for writing in. It does seem you have being having what we refer to as pre-syncopal episodes (meaning a syncope like episode but not quite syncope, since you do not pass out and lose consciousness). Moreover your history suggests you feel these episodes coming-feeling dizzy, light headed, about to faint type feeling and breaking out into a sweat.
    Various factors might precipitate a syncopal episode. In the case of vasovagal syncope these might include strong emotional experiences like for example seeing blood for the first time. Strong visceral sensations may also bring on an episode. Micturition syncope has been reported in elderly men (they pass out when they get up at night to void urine). Patients have been reported to pass out as they sit on the toilet seat and exert pressure.
    It is likely that something along the same mechanism might be operative in your case. Dehydration and been in a closed crammped theatre may have further contributed to the problem. Whenever a patient presents to the hospital with syncope, we have to determine whether the cause is the heart or the brain (cardiogenic versus neurogenic/ vasovagal). Also at times it is hard to differentiate seizures from syncope.
    My advise to you would be to consult a neurologist (ask your PMD to refer you to one). I am sure they would be able to get to the bottom of your problem. Feel free to write in again.
    Personal Regards,
    Nitin Sethi, MD

    • Syncope: making sense of its various causes

    braindiseases45 Comments

    Recently I was consulted on two patients who presented to the hospital after a syncopal episode. As syncope is relatively common, I thought that is what I should discuss in my next post.

    So what is syncope? Well simply put a syncopal episode is nothing other than a fainting episode. It is characterized by momentary/ temporary loss of consciousness and posture. Patients may refer to it as I “fainted” or “passed out”.  Whenever a patient presents to the hospital after a syncopal episode we take pains to find out what led to the syncope.

    So what are the different causes of syncope?  Syncope can come either from the heart or from the brain. Let me explain this further. If for some reason the heart suddenly malfunctions and stops pumping blood to the brain, you will pass out (lose consciousness). This is referred to as cardiogenic syncope. Among the various causes of cardiogenic syncope are included disorders of cardiac rhythm such as atrial and ventricular arrhythmias. Heart blocks and of course an acute myocardical infarction (heart attack) may present as a syncopal episode with the patient collapsing and passing out.

    Syncope though can also come from the brain and this is referred to as neurogenic syncope or at times as neurocardiogenic syncope. This neurally mediated syncope is also at times referred to as vasovagal or vasodepressor syncope. Let me explain what vasovagal syncope is with a classical example. Lets assume you are walking on the street. A car hits a cyclist right in front of you. You rush to help the poor man. As you come near, you see him bleeding profusely, his skull cracked open. You go pale, the blood drains from your face and you pass out. There you just had a vasovagal syncopal episode. Why you may ask did you pass out?

    Vasovagal syncopal episodes classically occur in the upright position meaning either you are sitting upright or standing (they usually do not occur when you are reclining). The episode is usually preceded by an unpleasant or painful episode such as the sight of blood, a medical procedure, an intense emotionally disturbing argument or news (sudden extreme emotions), standing in the hot sun or a hot shower for a long time especially if you are hungry and dehydrated at the same time.

    Other less common triggers may include a bout of violent coughing (cough syncope), urination (micturition syncope) and abdominal straining as during defecation.

    Usually prior to the onset of the syncope (prior to passing out), patients feel dizzy and light headed. They may complain of blurring of vision and feel as if they are about to faint. If at this stage the person sits down, they usually do not pass out or lose consciousness. This is referred to as pre-syncope (A syncopal episode was about to occur but since the patient sat down it was aborted midway).

    During a vasovagal synope episode there is transient loss of the baroreflexes (this is the autonomic nervous system which helps to maintain our blood pressure). Pooling of blood occurs in the dependent calf muscles and there is lack of blood flow to the brain resulting in the patient passing out. Hence one of the simple things to do when a person has a vasovagal syncopal episode is to make them lie down flat on the ground on their back and to lift the legs above the plane of the heart. As the blood rushes back to the brain, the person quickly comes around and may look a little dazed wondering what happened.

    As seizures too are associated with loss of consciousness, one always has to differentiate whether a patient had a seizure Vs a syncopal episode. As you can imagine it is important to make this differentiation as the two conditions are treated in very different ways. So how does one differentiate a seizure from a syncopal episode?

    A seizure can occur with the patient in any position: sitting, standing or lying down. Syncope usually occurs in the erect posture.

    Seizures are usually not preceded by the prodrome seen in syncope. Patients before they pass out in a syncopal episode complain of feeling light-headed, dizzy, room spinning and blurring of vision. Seizure patients on the other hand may give history of their aura prior to the seizure. Common auras include smelling of burning rubber, metallic taste in their mouth or a funny rising sensation in their tummy.

    Patients who have a seizure and fall usually hit and hurt themselves. They fall hard and may come to the hospital with craniofacial injuries like broken teeth. Syncopal patients on the other hand do not fall hard, they rather ease themselves to the ground.

    Some but not all seizures are associated with tongue biting and loss of bladder and bowel control (patient may pee on themselves and wet their pants). Most syncopal episodes are not associated with tongue biting or loss of bladder control.

    Patients after a seizure are usually confused and disoriented, they may fall asleep. We call this a post-ictal state. Syncopal patients as they come out of their syncope are not confused. They know where their are and may be embrassed by the fact they fainted.

    In my next post I shall discuss the diagnostic work-up and management of syncope.

    Nitin Sethi, MD